Curtis Jones Podcast Episode 16

Walking in the Shoes of Outdoor Photographer Curtis Jones

Curtis Jones profile image - black & white snowing
Curtis Jones

Immerse yourself in the world of renowned outdoor photographer, Curtis Jones. Join us as Curtis shares the highs and lows of his ongoing journey exploring the most isolated environments on the planet. Find out what motivates him and how his approach has changed over the years. He shares his passion not only to photograph these places but also to study the rich history, culture, flora, and fauna, so he can enthuse and educate those he guides.

In this episode, Curtis tells us about his initial experiences in expedition and adventure photography. From this more documentary approach, he has evolved into an artist, teacher and guide. Modern life with its electronic devices can make it hard to achieve a deep connection with nature and Curtis shares his own struggles with this as well as his hope that he can help others to connect with the locations he takes them to.

The podcast delves deep into the emotional elements of Curtis’s work, giving listeners an insight into the sense of satisfaction derived from capturing ever-evolving scenes. The remote, sometimes harsh locations have a profound impact on Curtis as well as opening up opportunities for extraordinary images. Through Curtis you can experience the joys, the anxieties, and the liberating aspects of being an outdoor photographer. 

Joe & Curtis explore the difference it can make when photographers connect more with the location and why various “rules” and traditions of landscape photography can limit your art. They also discuss the different levels of enjoyment to be gained when sharing the locations that have refuelled them as introverts with groups of photographers and explorers. Whether you are an aspiring photographer or simply a nature enthusiast, this episode offers a very personal perspective on outdoor photography and the art of being ‘in the moment’.

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Transcript of Curtis Jones Interview

Joe Lenton: welcome to the Focused Professional podcast. And today, we’ve got a guy who falls over in streams, rivers, and snow, gets soaked by rogue waves, but somehow still manages to get great images. Oh, no, sorry! That wasn’t the introduction I was supposed to go for. This is somebody who’s been on Team Canada for the World Photographic Cup, and been published in National Geographic publications and all sorts of other places as well. This is Curtis Jones, Hi, Curtis!

Curtis Jones: Hello!

Joe Lenton: I hope that was Ok for an intro. We did say beforehand we weren’t totally sure which way to go. So I thought I’d hedge my bets.

Curtis Jones: No, that was perfect. That was like a perfect summary of basically my whole approach to photography – “not really sure which way to go!”

Joe Lenton: Excellent. Yeah, I could certainly empathise with the with the rogue wave side of things. You try and get that really nice spot, and you’ve been watching the waves for a while. You watch where the tide line is. You think I’m pretty sure this is safe. But no. Mother nature has other ideas.

Curtis Jones: Always, always. Yeah, yeah, if you’re out there long enough, you’re gonna get wet. That’s just a given. That’s like a law of nature.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So most of your work is outdoors, and some of – quite a lot of it really, on your website looks to be from quite remote cold extremes of the planet. So you like getting away from people, I take it?!

Curtis Jones: So yeah, I feel like I’ve got a bit of a reputation as somebody who doesn’t like people. And that’s not true. I do. I love people. I love the the people that I have in my life, and I love meeting new people. I love going on adventures and traveling and meeting new people. That’s great. But I do really feel like I recharge, and I energise, and I relax more of my who I am who I really am if I’m in more isolated, remote environments. It’s funny cause like – I don’t know I was thinking about that concept of going to remote locations where there aren’t many people to get away from people. But it’s if you flip it, it’s more about me going to get closer to myself, I guess. To get like back to me, which I have a hard time doing when I’m surrounded all the time.

Joe Lenton: Yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah, I suppose as well with – you grew up in Newfoundland, yeah, so I suppose that’s quite sparsely populated in many ways as well. So there’s quite a lot of areas there where you can go for peace and quiet. So it’s probably something you grew up with, and were used to.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, definitely grew up basically just raised sort of outside just myself, cousins and a few friends and stuff like that, and spent a lot of time outdoors exploring in the woods, through bogs and frozen lakes and ponds and things like that. And you’re right, like Newfoundland has a couple of densely populated areas, but for the most part is pretty open. It was – it’s quite surprising, actually, the first time I left the province and lived somewhere else for a while, how restrictive everything else kind of felt even within Canada, which is a massive country with a sparse population. There are like – I don’t know, it was just quite different in Newfoundland, growing up kind of being able to to put a tent down almost anywhere, and walk for 5 days in any direction as long as it was away from the ocean, or adjacent! And not really other than maybe a handful of small like coastal towns, or something like that really run into much other than nature. So to go from that upbringing to, you know, fences and and allotted areas. And I don’t know, like even I guess, like what’s considered to be a Federal or provincial park which is fantastic,  there’s just I feel like there just seems to be less of those obstacles in Newfoundland.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So that must be quite strange when you have to go into the big cities and so on for your travels. That that must be rather a shock to the system.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I mean, it’s kinda like for me, it’s like going to the zoo a little bit. Like, I feel like it’s – I go and I have to like, prepare myself. And it was like, it’s gonna be good food. There’s gonna be like reliable Internet access. I can check in with family and friends. I’m going to get a hot shower, hopefully, usually depending on the country. And that’s the mindset. And if I can do that for 48 hours and keep in that frame of just soaking it in – But I’m definitely – when I do a lot of the international stuff that’s my least favourite part is the layovers and the stopovers, or the getting to the next part, you know, logistically and going through the bigger cities. While I can appreciate what it is – all the culture and the music and the art and the food and the people – it’s not – it definitely isn’t like the biggest draw for me.

Joe Lenton: Yeah, I can relate to that. I mean airports are not necessarily my favourite environments, really. There was one time when we had to spend 6 hours in the queue at an airport – wow!

Curtis Jones: Yeah, that would test me.

Joe Lenton: That was tough, that was tough. I did not enjoy that at all. So how much of your time do you spend on the road traveling, then?

Curtis Jones: It varies, it’s different. It’s been, I mean, over the last 10 years or so, it’s definitely seen a lot of like ups and downs. Some years it feels like I’ve only been home, for you know what amounts to be maybe 2 months out of the year, sporadically. And then there are other times where I’ll be here in Canada, you know, 3, 4 months at a time. So on average, I think I’m probably traveling somewhere between 6 and 8 months a year. And every year is a little bit different, and it does depend on the the kind of contracts that I get. A lot of the work has historically for me it’s been pretty – I wouldn’t say random, but it’s not like I can really –  every year is the same, or every month is the same. And slowly, over the last 10 years I’ve started to be able to establish a bit of a better, I guess, roadmap to where I’ll be at that time of year, or when I can expect to be in Newfoundland versus Alberta in Canada, or am I gonna be on the road? Am I gonna be in Antarctica? And so just trying to introduce a little bit more predictability, I think in the schedule.

Because it is – it’s something that I’ve noticed that over time I’ve kind of got to a point with my career where I’ve always wanted to be, where I set out to be years ago. Of course, like with everything 10 years into something you’re working towards you as a person you’ve changed. Your goals have changed. What you want, you know, or what you value, has probably slightly changed or moved, shifted. So now it’s a little bit more like I still want to travel, and I still want to be out there. But I don’t necessarily want to be gone for 3, 4 months at a time, away from friends and family. And also, I don’t really enjoy doing the really short stuff anymore, like going halfway around the world for a 10 day trip, kind of thing. So it’s like, how do you balance more consistent, valuable time at home where you can move forward with like life and friends and family and stuff at home, but also   figure out a way that if you’re gonna travel across the world, can you be there for a couple of months, and make the most of it?

Joe Lenton: Yeah, I can imagine it can easily be quite sort of disruptive to that developing a place where you want to put down roots. And so do you feel a bit torn in that regard? There’s part of you that wants to be out and traveling, and there’s part of you that wants to put down roots and call something home?

Curtis Jones: Definitely and I never was that way. When I left Newfoundland in my twenties, and I moved to Northern Canada. And it was kind of like one of these things where I just wanted to travel and travel and travel, and see as much of the world as I could, and have as many stories to, you know, to bring back as I could. And I definitely feel like now, 20-something years later – there’s always sort of been that tug. But it’s a lot heavier now. I feel like it’s a stronger pull. The things that I’ve – I think the things that I’ve discovered spending that time traveling and documenting things I want to sort of apply to where I’m from where I where I was raised like my roots, I guess, and I’ve tried to do that. But like haphazardly and not too well. While still maintaining a lot of like on the road lifestyle. It’s really difficult to tell. It’s difficult to tell somebody else’s story. It’s really hard to tell your own story if you’re not willing to like slow down and reconnect with your past, I guess, and where you’re from. So a lot of the things that I’d like to be doing in the next 5 ish years, let’s say 5-10 years that I hope to do are definitely more connected to home. And in order to do that I’ve found that, for me anyways, I really do kinda have to immerse myself in it. So I’ve always said that about photography as well. Like, if you’re gonna go – if you have the ability to go back to the same place over and over and over again your photographs will change. The stories that you tell are gonna become deeper and richer.

Joe Lenton: Definitely.

Curtis Jones: And so I’m just, I guess I’m just sort of coming around to the idea that I have to apply the same concept if I want to tell stories from where I’m from.

Joe Lenton: So is that something that you have quite a strong identity as a storyteller, then? Is that what you feel about yourself and your work?

Curtis Jones: I don’t know. Like, I’ve sort of resisted that. I’m coming around to it now. I think that that’s more because I’m more interested in doing that. I’ve always preferred to hear other people’s stories, or to just show my photographs and maybe talk about, you know, the images and things like that. But in the last couple of years I’ve definitely put more time and effort into writing, into storytelling. I’ve done a lot of – I do a lot of guide work that requires a certain element of story as well. Whether you’re talking about location or history of a place I find that it’s a more enjoyable experience if I’m bringing somebody on a photo tour and I can tell stories about the place while we travel in between the photo sessions. You know, and/or find some way to bridge 2 different cultures with story. 

For the clients that I’m bringing, and the people that we meet it just makes the whole experience a better one for everybody. I feel like it stays with people more than just “we went there, we saw this, we took the photo, we’re coming home.” And when I started realizing that I was seeing a lot of – my experience was changing when I invested time into that trying to be a better storyteller trying to like be a better guide, I guess. I felt like I was getting more out of the photos that I was taking. I felt like the experience was better for clients and for the people that we met. And so, yeah, I guess a couple of years ago, I started to try to focus on that a bit more. 

I don’t – I would love – I think there are 2 things that I absolutely feel like are – I’m just envious of people that can do it. One is to get up on stage and just tell a story, you know, like those storytelling nights, or whatever I think that’s an amazing skill. It’s super courageous, that, and to be a stand up comedian in my mind feels like the most raw skill set that you can apply.

Joe Lenton: Is practically bearing yourself in front of an audience, isn’t it really?!

Curtis Jones: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Lenton: Scary, I should imagine.

Curtis Jones: So yeah, like, so for me, when I think of storyteller, I’m like, that’s storytelling, and I don’t think that that’s what I am. But I do definitely think that it’s – not that I want to be that person on the stage – but that’s kind of the direction that I like trying to point myself towards and seeing if I can bring elements of that into what I’m doing.

Joe Lenton: So how do you develop your understanding?  How do you research it? Is it simply that you’ve been to these places and you listen to locals, or do you read a lot? How do you inform yourself about these places that you’re then going to be a tour guide for?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I do read a ton. I try to stay as current as I can with a lot of – so, for example for Antarctica to go down there and be a guide, you have to do a certain amount of study and coursework and there are, like the are certifications and qualifications and exams and things like that about the flora, the fauna, the wildlife, the history, the arrangement of the treaty that governs Antarctica. So there’s a lot of information that you’re just ingesting anyways and so for me, I’ve always said that if I’m going to go through that process – and I come from an academic background. I went to school and got a degree, and I was working in a profession that has nothing to do with photography. And for me, the one thing that always kinda like – I have no regrets about that – but I always sort of regret, I guess and regret is the wrong word, but I’ve always – it always sort of like was a punch in the stomach that I never, I feel like, I never really leveraged the study into something else.

Joe Lenton: Yeah.

Curtis Jones: With this, if I’m gonna do the study, it’s like, how can I take pieces of that and make it interesting and tell stories or engage people? You know that you meet in an airport line up about okay, you’re going Antarctica as a photo guide and a lot of the times then it just becomes very much about “what kind of photos? Can I see the photos? What’s your Instagram? How do you get that job, that’s crazy?” Like, which is all, those are all valid things. But the conversation for me is way more interesting when we just start talking about the place, the history, why, it’s important, that kind of stuff, and so I guess I get a better sense of what I’m doing with my life out of being able to research places, try to take that information and give it back in a different package to people. And I feel like the photographs and the video that I take in these places are, that’s kind of the delivery system in a lot of ways. 

But then it is for me, especially like as I get older, and that I’ve had the opportunity to be able to go back to these places over and over again. It’s almost like a requirement for me now is that it has to be about more than just taking nice photos. So what else is there? Well, I should have a better understanding of this place and what it means. And if I have a better understanding for myself, can I help or can I pass that information along to other people? It’s a little different, I guess, for places with people, then. Then it is, yeah, still, research and reading and things like that. But a lot of that does come from just sitting around a table over coffee or tea, or a meal or campfire, something like that, and listening to people. And a lot of – so in that situation I’m very much just like a willing participant just listening and asking questions and things like that.

Joe Lenton: Oh, it sounds like all of it is really coming from a place of passion for you that you really do want to dig into it. Sometimes you find photographers who learn “enough” what they think to get by, and that’s about it. Or you might get people who would go on one of those kind of trips as a once in a lifetime thing and think, “yeah, it’s great. But, boy, was that challenging.” You know, for you it seems to be an ongoing passion that is deepening in different ways as you as you’re getting older. Can you put a finger on what kindled that passion?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, it’s a really good question. I think it’s got something to do with that idea of going to places just that one time and saying, “okay, I did that, and it was difficult. What’s the next thing?” And I was doing a lot of that early in my career before I was even doing this professionally, and then, as I started to do it professionally, it felt a little bit like ticking an accomplishment box – checklist almost. When I first got into this I was very much in the world of expedition and adventure photography, so it wasn’t so much travel or photo-guiding or education, or anything like that. It was 100% documenting or being part of these sort of more adventurous physical expedition challenges in different parts of the world. And the more sort of crazy and difficult and wild it looked on paper – that’s what we were gonna go for. And that was the story we’d sell like afterwards to magazines, or we try to get sponsors on board and whatnot right like just all that make a film, put it in a film festival, whatever. 

But, it was fun for a while, but I felt like my heart wasn’t really, truly in it, because it really did feel to me – and I’m not suggesting that this is the way it is for anybody who’s still doing this, or does do it, or aspires to – but for me I didn’t connect with anything past the whole like, “well, what’s next?” Or, the “I accomplished this, and that’s what I did for me.” Like, I didn’t know if I could do it. I tried to do it, I tested myself, which I think is an incredibly valuable thing that we all should be doing. But I also wanted to see if there was like something – for me, anyways – I felt like I needed to have some sort of a deeper connection as to why I’m doing this.

Joe Lenton: That makes sense. I think these things evolve, you know, we start doing something for one reason, and then we learn about ourselves through it, and sometimes something which kind of started off as a almost like an addiction to a buzz, you know, “oh, I’ve done that. I’ve done that. I’ve done that.” You say, “yeah, do I really want to push myself further and further? Or do I want to find another reason for doing this?” Do I want to connect with it in a different way?

Curtis Jones:  Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think that’s a lot of how it started. And then, now, it feels very much just more like who I am. I really really love, like, the research part of things. I love figuring out all this information and sharing it with people. And I also like bringing that research of that information to people in those countries or places that I go and saying like, “I read this or I saw this, like, is this crazy? How far off?” You know what I mean? Instead of – it’s a little bit like if you have the ability to go back to a place more than once, more than twice or 3 times, and you start having friendships and forming sort of relationships with people. There’s that back and forth. It’s a conversation. And it really does feel like a stronger connection to, and a better reason for me to keep going back and to keep doing that work than the one-off sort of scenarios.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So as your career has developed, you’ve been traveling a lot, taking a lot of like landscapes, seascapes, nature, wildlife – well, quite a collection of different things. Was that normally done sort of off your own back, with a view to then finding an audience to sell that to? Or was it more commissioned upfront so you knew what brief you were trying to meet? Cause you get quite a lot of people when they do photography like getting into sort of landscapes, and so on. But then, beyond sort of trying to sell their mates say a calendar for the New Year, or make some cards or something, they’re not necessarily sure “what on earth do you do with this stuff?” You know. So how did it work? How did it work for you?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, it was a carnival, basically of everything, like. I when I did start, I threw myself in the arena for, like any kind of photography that would pay. I just wanted to grow as a photographer, to build my skills and to find a way to make money doing it like a lot of people when you start. Now, when I was a hobbyist, serious hobbyist, I was definitely more interested in landscapes and nature. And so ideally in my mind, I was like, “how do I make that pay?” And it wasn’t incredibly easy, for, like, a lot of the reasons that you just mentioned, like, outside of going to like weekend art fairs and selling your your prints, calendars, cards, stuff like that. Which varying success. I think that’s a really difficult road. 

I think that some people can possibly pull it off, but I don’t think nowadays that it’s possible to do easily, if at all, without really investing in some sort of branding, social media portion as well. Whether that’s a YouTube channel that pushes you and your identity and the story behind the photos and your journey to get those photos. And that’s why people care and wanna buy something, a book or calendar. Or you’re just like literally showing up at every craft market, every weekend of the year, and building a relationship with people every single, you know, Saturday and Sunday who know and rely on you to be there. But it – I think it is hard, if somewhat impossible, to build a full-time career nowadays around just taking pictures of landscapes, putting them on a website and expecting somehow for that to translate into sales.

Joe Lenton: They’ve almost become like a – I know it’s sad to say this, but it seems unfortunately true is that a lot of that work has almost become like a commodity to a lot of people. You can go into like a big superstore or something, and you can buy this stuff printed on a canvas for next to nothing, you know. So as an independent artist then trying to sell prints of your work, it can be a real uphill struggle. So I guess it’s more money in the commercial licensing, I would presume.

Curtis Jones: Yeah. So that’s why I – that’s what I did. So I did like, I tried weddings, and I tried a lot of like corporate stuff, and I did client work and editorial stuff. I was living in Northern Canada. So, what I did have was the ability to be one of a few photographers around. So that when jobs did come up there wasn’t a lot of competition. So when I was in my early days I was inexperienced. I probably wasn’t the best photographer that could be hired, but I was available, and I said yes to everything which goes a long way, I think, in the beginning of their career, for sure. It’s just being available and being open to all these opportunities and doing your best, and trying to learn from it, and do better the next time. And so there was a lot of that. But then the other thing that I realized is that I was – a lot of the nature and landscape stuff was quite unique back then, and it is still now. There are parts of the world where stock photography is still unique. It’s less and less and less, and with AI and all that stuff, who knows? But at that time, 10-15 years ago, Arctic, remote, polar Northern stock photography wasn’t a big thing. So it was – I was still able to sell and license my images of nature and landscapes and wildlife to, you know, companies, governments, NGOs, things like that through stock and get paid decently well to do it. So, I was very fortunate in the beginning, like first couple of years of my career, to find those connections and build those relationships for a very niche product, which was Arctic stock.

Joe Lenton: So, you said it – mentioned about like government organizations and so on. Is that partly because of the developing interest in the environment? So things like keeping an eye on the polar ice caps, and that? Was there more of an interest growing in that so they wanted more images?

Curtis Jones: Definitely. So, one of my long time clients was the Climate Change Division for the Territorial Government. And so every year I could usually expect to have some sort of conversation or meeting about what they would need for the coming year. As far as stock goes, without a guarantee they’re gonna buy it. But at least I had some like I had a kind of an idea and then I would go out and try to create that stuff. So that’s a little bit like spec, but also a little bit I was gonna shoot most of this stuff probably, anyways. It was just being a little bit more mindful and intentional with, you know, framing and composition, knowing that there’s this could work for a website banner, or this can be the cover of like an annual report, leaving that negative space where it had to be, and all that kind of stuff.

Joe Lenton: Sure. But I wonder whether, with that, when you’re doing something like that, you – well, I think I’m just imagining it from my perspective, whether I’d feel a little bit torn. Its like, is this a documentary photo? Or is this an artistic fine art sort of photo that’s gonna be processed? Like you’re in that situation is like, do you shoot your documentary stuff, and then spend a bit of time on your fine art? Or how – did you split it in your mind at all like that when you were doing it?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I it’s a good question. I mean, I I think at the beginning I didn’t. I probably just took what I thought I liked what I wanted to take a photo of, and how I wanted to take it. And a lot of those, not a lot, but enough of those photos were interesting to agencies and corporations that they ended up using them. So I didn’t really have to like make a choice. It was just like I took this photo. It’s available. Here’s what I got. Guys, do you wanna use it? And then, after doing that for a couple of years, realizing that there was probably an easier sell or a market for a little bit more tailored product for certain clients. And that’s probably where the division happened. Then it would be like I would be more intentional to shoot for what I thought they might use or need and then, if I wanted to shoot for myself, knowing that you know what this nobody’s ever gonna use, this is just for me. And like a photo, or a print, or a for a book, or something that I wanna make that nobody, maybe nobody will buy. Nobody will care about. I don’t know, but it’s I’m still gonna take the photo, right?

Joe Lenton: Yeah.

Curtis Jones: And now, though, like, I feel like both those worlds have influenced each other quite a bit. And so now, when I go out and shoot, there are a lot of photos that I think like, “oh, this is a beautiful shot that I’d love to like print, and put on a wall or something like that.” But also I think it’s like it could be useful as like as a commercial print as well, so.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So your work has been involved now for a long time with these kind of places with being out in nature. Sometimes we can find it difficult these days to disconnect from our electronic devices and just actually, really, still connect with nature directly. Do you find that you can still do that? Do you find you can put your camera to one side and enjoy and connect with nature? Or is it just well, it’s work now?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, that’s a good question. I feel like I never thought about it at all for the longest time. I was just – anytime I stepped outside and did anything I had a camera or 2, tripod, filters, lenses. You’re just going to get groceries and you’ve got 35 pounds of equipment on your back cause you’re just like, what if something? What if? What if?

Joe Lenton: Yeah.

Curtis Jones: And I spent a lot of time doing that. And now I, thankfully, because it’s way better for my mental health am able to leave all that stuff behind for weeks, or even a month, sometimes and just go out and explore and hike and camp and walk the trails and think. But that came with a lot of effort, like, it is hard, and even now it’s still hard to do that. And then, like, you get the most beautiful light, or like an incredible wildlife encounter, you have nothing, and you just have to, like, sort of swallow that a little bit and just, and bring yourself to be present and mindful. But I do think that that is incredibly important for everybody. But if, especially for wild, like, nature, outdoor photographers, we do tend to get very focused and singular on just chasing the image or the experience for the image that we put that, like, that actual being present in the moment, mindfulness way at the bottom. 

And I know that, like, most people who are outside doing photos like landscape and nature and stuff, the reason they’re out to doing that is because they would want to be whether they had a camera or not, and for me it gets lost. And I know with a lot of the students that we do and like for workshops and clients that for me is like a big sort of ulterior motive, I guess, for running some of these workshops and tours is to see if I can just, like, get people to reconnect with why they wanted to do this kind of stuff in the first place. Of course, they wanna get these amazing photos. That part of the whole, like marketing is like me showing like “this is a great photo I took. And I can bring you to this place, and you can maybe have that.” But really it’s more about, this is an incredible experience. And this is where, like the storytelling part comes in again. It’s like, here’s like the my experience and the story of how I got this photograph and what it was like for me. And I’d love for you to have a similar or your own experience in this beautiful spot and maybe you’ll get a photo as well. Like, that’s kind of more of the angle now.

Joe Lenton: That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. I’ve found at times when you’re outside and the light is just great you can end up running around like a headless chicken, just trying to get shots in before the light goes.

Curtis Jones: Yeah.

Joe Lenton: Instead of just standing there and enjoying it, or sitting and enjoying it. I suppose the closest I tended to get to it was long exposure stuff. Put the 10-stop on there and actually, I’ve got a few seconds to just stand and look, then.

Curtis Jones: 100%, I totally – and really got into that, too, like the 10 stop long exposure stuff for a while, because you were able to just sit, and you had that time to take it in. It’s funny. When I was living up North I had a friend who was a painter and there were times when we’d both go out and we’d be out on the beach or in the mud, like in the flats, as the tide went out waiting for the sun come up, and he would set up an easel, and he would be painting and I would have a tripod like just next to him adjacent, and I would be doing long exposure stuff. And sometimes he would just be doing these really quick gesture sketches to get an impression of the place, and he would knock out like 15 sketches before I had one photo, and it felt like it was really interesting to see.

Like, usually you’d think like that the artist is going to be taking his time, and he’ll be at it for hours capturing a moment. The photographer is gonna take a shot, move on, take a shot, move on. So it was fun to sort of like play with that balance and see that like you could – there was a way to slow down. You could implement, like, you could speed up. You could slow down. I mean, it really is in our power and our control. And I feel like as photographers or just artists or creators, or whatever humans, like, it makes sense for us to be in these spaces and just connect to them. And I think that you will. Yeah, you’re gonna miss some images definitely you’re gonna miss some moments you’re gonna kick yourself for it. 

But like, if you look at the long term curve of that, your work is, gonna be stronger and stronger and stronger if you’re connecting with the spaces and the places and the wildlife on a very personal level as well, which we cannot do if we’re just running around from shot shot to shot, chasing light. I think that if you invest sort of that, give yourself the space to settle and have that intention and that mindset, your work later on will reflect it.

Joe Lenton: Yeah, I think understanding and connecting with the space is quite important. Certainly, when I’ve been for sort of sunrise or sunset it was trying to get a feel for all of that before the light came, which is difficult, because you got to anticipate where the light’s gonna be. But then I think what some of the most satisfying shots that I took that were really really long ones, like, 5 minute exposure or something when the fading light is just going because I couldn’t do anything. You’re taking a real gamble on it, you’re tying your equipment up in this shot and thinking, I hope it comes out as something, but then, at the same time, you know, after the first few seconds, you set it up, you think well, I might as well just look now.

Curtis Jones: Yes. Yeah, like, what does this actually look like? What does it feel like on my skin as it gets brighter, and it gets a little warmer, you know. 5 – a lot can happen in 5 minutes over a sunrise, you know, or a pre-dawn. It’s funny, cause I, and it took a while, I went through a few years, and I assume a lot of people did where you would set up one of these longer exposures or any shot, and if you did have that time, it’s like, now, if you’re sitting down and you’re watching Netflix or something, and I’m still somewhat antsy to reach for my phone or a different screen. It’s like we’re just so – it’s normal to have ourselves engaged in 3-4 activities at the same time now all the time, because we can. It feels quite unnatural to do the opposite and just like sit there and experience. 

And for me it’s still hard. It takes a lot because I realize it’s necessary for work. It’s part of the job now to not set up that 5 min exposure, and then instantly go to like my phone and get like bts for reels or TikTok or whatever and create some sort of content, right? And I get it. I get why it’s important to do that, but also I struggle with it quite a bit. Cause my preference is to just wanna sit there as well and take that time.

Joe Lenton: Totally yeah, when you’ve got that kind of an opportunity, and it’s in a way for me it was one of the attractions, because in Norfolk we’ve got a lot of coastline nearby, and it varies quite a bit. It’s just being able to – there’s the rhythmic pounding of the waves – there’s being able to sit there and enjoy that, and the light just gradually changing. It’s a kind of a – it was kind of meditative for me. It was a nice way, after yanking myself out of bed at silly o’clock in the morning, which wasn’t easy. It’s quite a peaceful thing to do, and you feel good afterwards, you know. And often coming away with just a few, is better than running around trying to snap everything just in case you might be missing something.

Curtis Jones: Oh, yeah, I love that. That’s I mean, that’s the perfect way to summarize, for I feel the same way because I know that years ago I would have come back and had 100 photos from that morning, and not know which one I really cared about, or why or what I was going to do with them, and if you only go out and take 3 photographs – let’s say they’re all well done, and they’re all nice, but it’s a lot easier to build and establish some sort of like connection to that moment of that memory. And then they’ve got that story coming. You just told me this, like, you know your experience of getting up at silly o’clock and forcing yourself out there, but finding that peace after the fact, like when I hear that like, I want to go see what you saw. 

If you just showed me a gallery with, you know, 20 photos on Instagram from that morning and are all similar, like, look or feel, I’m not really connecting to you. I’m not connecting to your work. And maybe because, like, the artists themselves didn’t really connect to the work, you know what I mean? I’m not – I have no idea if that’s true or not. But I guess. As for me, personally, as I get older, and the more time I spend doing this kind of stuff that’s the experience that I’m attracted to is the one you just described. So when I see other artists and photographers create that way, those are the photographers that I will gravitate towards.

Joe Lenton: yeah, I suppose sometimes you can sense it in the images, and sometimes you almost need that bit of back story. So, then you’re potentially caught in that dilemma again, of Do I need to shoot some behind the scenes?

Curtis Jones: Make content, yeah.

Joe Lenton: Make content for it? Or can I just write some copy afterwards about it?

Curtis Jones: This is the crux, and I mean, and also like this is where it goes from art to to a job, right? Like, that’s the other thing, like we’re all, even the people who love their work. They found their passion in life. It’s work at certain points of the day or the week. And yeah, that’s the other side of all this is like, you know, find that balance and then realise you know, you gotta do that other stuff, too, from time to time.

Joe Lenton: So some of the places that you go to are not exactly known for their what most people might consider “good” weather. But at the same time I think that often it’s the challenging weather that can produce more interesting photos. But the same beyond that, though, is there a point at which weather just becomes too bad, you know, in these environments? Are there days, where you just say, “not going out there!” Or do you actually look for some slightly chaotic weather to get a range of images?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I definitely lean towards the getting excited for chaos when it comes to weather. If I look outside and it’s a there’s like no wind, there’s a blue sky, a couple of low clouds and just like beautiful light, everything’s green and lush – I’m likely to say you know what, I’m not going out today. I’m not interested. And if I look outside and like somebody’s garbage trash can is like blowing down the street, and there’s like a kid like running after a jacket. And there’s a cat in a tree screaming, I’m going to be like, Oh, yeah, okay, let’s get our stuff ready and see what we can go find. So I definitely on that spectrum, I’m gonna gravitate definitely towards harsh weather, unforgiving weather. I like trying to find moments in that bad weather. 

Those, I guess, those moments and those experiences that most people – I like that most people are not out in it. And I like that it’s a visual that most people don’t see. It’s gonna be a location. If it’s a, like, a well known lighthouse landmark, beautiful sunrise location and I go out there when, like, the blizzard of the year is basically about to set upon us, and there’s a squall coming in off the North Atlantic. I wanna get that photograph because I don’t think people have ever seen this. You know what I mean? Or very few, including myself, and that’s why I’m chasing it is because, like, here’s something I’ve never seen before in a location that I’ve seen 1,000 times so.

Joe Lenton: Sure, yeah.

Curtis Jones: So, I’m looking for those unique moments, and awfully often the harsh weather is when you get it. But also there’s a part of my personality that really, like, going back to those early days of the expedition stuff and the adventure stuff. That I do – I do get, like, that adrenaline rush of being out in a little bit more chaos and crazy stuff where it pushes me physically as well as creatively and you’re fighting wind, and you’re trying to, like, figure out how to make, how to make this work and how to keep your gear clean and dry. And I like that challenge. I like that experience, and I also find it very humbling. I often fail in those conditions, and that’s important for me is to realise that I’m putting myself in spaces and at moments outdoors where I can’t always win. Or I’m not always going to be set up for success and then when I do pull it off, it means that much more to myself, or I’m more surprised, I guess.

Joe Lenton: So how do you then deal with that? When you’ve got up early, you’ve gone out for a you know, a long drive or something. You’ve put yourself somewhere and you come back with nothing saleable, nothing much that you can use. How do you tend to react to that?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, it varies. I mean, yeah, I can get a little dark and negative sometimes if it happens quite frequently, you know, it’s been a while since I’ve gotten some banger shots in the can. But I think for me it’s a little like going back to that like being in the moment and disconnecting a little bit. I try to take those experiences for what they are, which is usually that there’s an opportunity there to have just experienced the weather, the location to have seen it. The simple fact that you got up and you went out, and there was nobody else out there, and you saw something, and you maybe you didn’t capture it. Maybe you couldn’t clearly translate that into a photograph or an image that was sellable, or would resonate with an audience. But you did have the experience, and it proves that those moments are out there, right? So for me, once I get over the like, “oh, I failed. I don’t have a thing to show anybody that was a waste of time,” which happens to us all. Usually, then, what I focus on is but there was a that was cool. There was that moment of cool light. I just wasn’t able to get it. So I’m gonna go out again and know that maybe there’s another chance for something cool and just be better prepared. You know, learn from your mistakes. But, that’s not to say that I don’t get – I do – I definitely get down and upset with myself in the whole system, when it happens too frequently.

Joe Lenton: It can be very frustrating. There are some areas that just seem to have their own micro climates. So you look at the sky, you look at the forecast and think “looks great. There’s enough cloud for it to be interesting; some good light.” You drive all the way there, and there’s a thick bank of cloud that’s just appeared from nowhere right across the horizon. And you think, “great! Okay!”

Curtis Jones: Yeah, there’s some locations on the Avalon, on the east coast of Newfoundland, like, just you’ll check all the apps, all the weather and be like this is gonna be the perfect sunrise. It’s it’s exactly what I want. You get out there and you realize it’s the only peninsula that’s literally sitting in fog and there’s nothing. But then, after that happens like 3 times in a row at sunrise, you’re like, Oh, you know what this is the fog location. So if I wanna get an image that’s gonna be desolate and minimalist. And what can I do with that fog? How can I turn that now into something interesting? Because I can depend on that condition to be there. That’s exactly when you go out, and there’s no fog!

Joe Lenton: Of course!

Curtis Jones: But 9 times out of 10 the fog will be there, and when you can start predicting that, and that’s the benefit of like visiting locations more than twice, 3 times, 4 or 5 times. I I always say to people, if you look at my portfolio, a lot of it is just like it spans like world and very remote locations that are hard to access. And so, yes, I agree that that in and of itself sometimes brings a certain mystique to the images and kind of like elevates them. Whether I’m a good photographer or not, just being in those locations sometimes, and showing people things that they haven’t seen does a lot of the heavy lifting. But as far as becoming a stronger, better photographer, with images that resonate and hold like, weight for people, I think that, like your local areas, things that you can access regularly – not even just daily, but like, you know, monthly or whatever. Those are the places where you’re probably gonna create your strongest work overall because you can go back over and over and understand the places and get, you know, light from every angle at different times of the day, at every kind of weather or season, throughout the year, building this body of work, and really understanding how all of that works together to create, like that magical space, right?

Joe Lenton: Yep, definitely. And we were talking earlier about how these kind of places, especially when you go on your own. You can – it can be good for your mental health. It can help you sort of begin to cultivate that mindfulness if you can manage to keep away from your phone and so on. But then, when you do workshops, you’re bringing people into that space. How does that feel then? Is it – is it not a bit strange that in a way you’re inviting people into your sort of safe space or your quiet place?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I think I was lucky to have learned from a couple of friends that were doing it a few years before I started doing it, and their approach was very much to be just a complete open book and be 110% available for the students and for the clients that are there. And so when I started doing this I really leaned into that. And I really – going back to earlier saying, like being a good guide, having a better understanding of the places that I bring people. I really kind of relied on that mentality. I worked as a just a regular guide for a while before I did photography. And I used a lot of those skills when I started doing the photo tours and the workshops to just be, yeah, to be present with them and to guide them through the experience. And so then what I find is that it takes the emphasis off of me completely. There’s no pressure for me to create images in those moments when I’m out there like I, unless I’m doing a demonstration, I probably don’t have my camera out. I don’t set up a tripod or anything like that. I’m 100% like just with the people. 

And what I get – I think what I get out of those moments bringing people to those places is that that’s my opportunity so as much as an introvert and a person that tries to get away from people as I am. That’s my opportunity to like reconnect to humanity right to people again, but in a space that means something to me, and I hope means something to them. And we kind of we find our way together through that, and they find their own experience, their own story or adventure out of that. I really really love it when people come on these workshops and I love to see them like create work that they’re proud of. I love to see their journey if it’s like a 10 day or a longer 2 week, or something like that, to see where they start and see where they get if they have, like a certain creative goals in mind. But what I like more than all of that is just seeing them become more and more comfortable outside in nature, pushing their comfort zone. Someone who was like, “I can’t walk up that stream. It’s too slippery, those rocks. I’m not sure I just…” You know, whatever, my knees aren’t as good as they used to be kind of thing. And then, 2 days later, they’re skipping like they’re hopping across that river to get to a waterfall shot that’s better than staying closer to the like the side of the road, kind of thing because they’re more confident they just haven’t been outside – they haven’t played outdoors in a while. 

And so when I do these tours and I’m less focused on my own work or my own creative experience out there, and more just working as a guide and sort of like someone who’s there to support their experience. It makes that place in some ways even like more significant for me to be able to bring people there and show them that and and help them experience it. There are still places very much, though, where it’s not that I wouldn’t bring people there, but they’re less accessible. So there’s definitely still places where there’s only a handful of people that I probably ever brought there to take photos or to whatever and then I think as well, I’ve become better, or I try to anyways, become better at finding that sort of solitude in everyday moments. Like I can just – I can be surrounded a little bit now by tours and things like that, and still carve out my own little spot next to the ocean, and invest my mind in that one rolling wave, and watch it break and see how the light dances off of it, and still there’ll be like families picnicking around me and having their own thing. Which is, like, for me, that’s incredibly hard to do so I’m trying to be better at that so that I guess I’m not as protective over those places, and these experience of being “my spot” or my sanctuary, or whatever and the other thing is like. Sorry. Go ahead.

Joe Lenton: No, I don’t know about you, but I find that it’s 2 different types of enjoyment that you can get the creative enjoyment of doing your own images there. But then, when you’re teaching people, when you see their passion, when you see them falling in love with the location. When you see the images they’re creating when they try a technique they’ve never done before. When they stick an ND filter on for the first time and go, “oh!” You know it’s a different kind of satisfaction. So you’re enjoying the place in a different way.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And that’s great cause then the place becomes more like, it’s a richer experience and it has more significance for me. Because it’s not just one dimensional anymore, like just a place of solitude or for my own work. So I, yeah, I really do get a lot out of that.

Joe Lenton: yeah, I can relate quite a bit to that side of it, because I mean, I’ve always enjoyed sort of teaching, but at the same time it’s nice having that sort of time by yourself. And going in different times like that you enjoy the place in different ways. You think you’re sharing something with someone, and they see that and think, “oh, yes, that is, that is interesting.” That is a special feature of this environment here, and seeing it in different light every time you go. I think the more I’ve done photography, the more I’ve realized that every time you go somewhere it’s different, you know. It can be cloudy. But there’s a different type of cloudy. There’s all sorts, it’s infinite. So every time you go you can still get something out of the experience. And it’s some of it’s just about that mindset really is having the right mindset when when you go somewhere, not necessarily thinking, “oh, it’s got to be a stunning sunset thing with some oranges, and you know shades of magenta coming out of bits and pieces in the background over there,” and so on, and so forth, and then going home in a huff because you didn’t get it. Its having a mindset almost as open to see what you’re going to be given, you know.

Curtis Jones: 100%. I agree with you so much. It’s funny you’re saying that. And I was thinking like, it’s so crazy that for me I feel so much pressure if I go out on my own at sunrise and I do get a good sunrise, I get, like, hectic. I get anxious, because you only have a certain amount of time, and unless you know exactly the composition and you’ve got it already kind of framed up you are sort of scattered, and you’re wondering was this better? Is that better? Oh, like dealing with the equipment, and whatever and then the moments may be lost. And you might get it – you might not. But I do feel a lot of pressure in those moments. And so for me, when I go out, and it’s not a perfect sunrise. I almost feel like, Oh, it’s more like play. It’s more like the pressures off. I might create something amazing that I never thought of before, because I can’t just rely on that crutch of it being the perfect sunrise. And knowing I gotta get that one, I can nail that perfect moment. It’s like, well, I wasn’t given the best moment, so the pressures off to just see, and maybe I’ll surprise myself. The bars a little lower, and I’m probably gonna get above it. But its the exact opposite when I bring people on workshops. I’m just like stressed out. If we don’t get really good light, I’m like, “oh, we can’t have 3 days in a row of no sunrise, like, we have to get a sunrise!”

Joe Lenton: Yeah, I think I’ve found that very much to be true, that when you’re on your own, you with those experiences, you know you can get something out of less than ideal conditions. And, in fact, the number of times when people have said, “oh, the day looks lovely today. You’re going out photographing?” I think, “no, no, it’s totally the wrong weather for me.”

Curtis Jones: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Lenton: Blue skies. I don’t want that. I’ve actually found myself going to the coast when I know it’s going to be thick fog, because there’s one town where there’s this old sort of Victorian pier and when you’ve got the fog going around it, and you’ve got some images of that you don’t know what century you’re in almost. When you see those images it seems more timeless. And people who are coming on a workshop are not always ready for that. They sometimes need a little bit of leading by the hand to say, “don’t worry. It’s okay. We’re not gonna get a dramatic sunset, or whatever. But you know there’s still things we can do here.”

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I agree with that. I feel the same way. It’s I -when I first started doing it, I was very much like I’m gonna teach you like this more mindful approach, this artistic like inside your intentions and the purpose behind creating work that has resonance and is timeless. And I realise it’s really hard for especially for people who are just starting out. It’s really hard to get them to like, buy into that and get them on board, cause there’s a lot I’m saying that makes no sense having not – they haven’t taken like the thousands of images that get them to that point, to be able to see the opportunity.

Joe Lenton: Exactly.

Curtis Jones: So I had to – I learned really fast when I started, you know, teaching that I gotta dial it back and meet everybody at their space in their level. And some people are ready for it. Some people aren’t. And, yeah.

Joe Lenton: There’s a certain amount of it with some people that they want to get the iconic shot that they’ve seen, perhaps that you’ve used to advertise the workshop, or whatever, whatever it might be. The sort of picture postcard kind of thing, and they come with that sort of in their minds that’s their goal for the evening. That’s what they wanna do. And as soon as anything looks to be slightly out, then they get uncomfortable and don’t know what they’re doing with it. But, as you say, to try and sort of say, take them to the point where you are – you think well, you forget there’s years of experience in between and it isn’t an easy kind of a jump to make. And when we started out it’s often I’m going to go to the best place in the best conditions. I’ve researched what the weather’s going to be like, and I want to get the best image. And, you know, what is “best,” anyway? You know.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, yeah, definitely, what is “best”? There’s a lot of managing expectations like, it’s a lot of – definitely a lot of that for myself and for the clients.

Joe Lenton: Yeah, you look at some, you can see some incredible fog images. You can see incredible snow images. You can see some reasonable ones on a sunny day, I suppose, sometimes.

Curtis Jones: Yeah.

Joe Lenton: When you get sudden downpours of rain and you get the contrast between the really dark clouds and the sort of brighter patches where the sun is coming through. There’s so many different things that can happen in an environment, and the whole thing changes with that. And I think there’s a sense in which landscape photography seems to idealise the sunrise and the sunset, you know, the “golden hour.” And you can almost feel counterintuitive to go at a different time or not to go for that purpose. It’s like everyone assumes. Well, that’s what you do.

Curtis Jones: Yeah. you’re right.

Joe Lenton: You’re a landscape photographer – you go for the sunrise or the sunset, the golden hour, because that is the the “right” in inverted commas time to photograph a landscape.

Curtis Jones: Yeah. Definitely. And breaking that thought pattern and moving away from you know your ultra wide lenses moving away from everything, having to be on a tripod like there’s so many fundamentals to landscape photography that are correct, and I think are necessary to understand and to learn and then knowing when to use them and when to break away from that is like obviously another big step forward. But, it does feel like there’s like this part of the experience in your learning journey where you’re sort of locked into those fundamentals, or I was anyways, for a while. So we do – you know, you always get a handful of people that come on the workshops that are – they’re there. It’s always fun to see if you can like peel them away from that a little bit with challenges and things like that, you know.

Joe Lenton: I can end up freaking people out just by – I don’t call it the “rule of thirds.” I call it the “tool of thirds.” Because it’s like otherwise the number of times when you do like a seascape workshop or something, and it’s always got to be, “oh, no, no, I’ve always got to have my sea on the third.” 

Curtis Jones: I like that – tool of thirds.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So who made that a rule? When did that become a “rule” for goodness sake. So many different ways of presenting something, and it’s like you go through this process as a photographer, learning kind of structures and things that you – that initially can be helpful. But then they start to hold you back. 

Curtis Jones: Yeah.

Joe Lenton: Like you photograph landscapes in a golden hour, and you stick the the sea on the third, and you have 2 thirds sky, and so on. And that’s how you do it. But if you keep doing that you’re not gonna look any different to anybody else.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, and or your work just by itself, like all your work, will look – it’s not even like creating harmony. It’s just that you’re just doing the same photo over and over and over at a certain point. But, you know, I think the more you can – and it’s easier now with digital for sure to just get that point across to people that like, just try it. Who cares? Especially after those golden light moments are done, and you’re dealing with like the next hour of the morning, or whatever. Where you’re going. And it’s like, here’s the time to put on – and I don’t know – or shoot at like 85 and try going handheld, or whatever. Or – and just play. And it’s always surprising to me, like, how many people, when I introduce little challenges like that in the workshops at the end or halfway through and we’re kind of going over people’s work and going through some editing demos and things like that. Talking about the photographs they’ve taken. How many people choose those shots from those little weird challenges as their favourite shot. Or one of their favourite shots of the workshop.

Joe Lenton: It’s sometimes almost giving themselves permission to do something different, isn’t it really?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So going back to regular places is obviously very helpful when you’re a guide, because you immerse yourself in it, you understand it more and more. Do you ever get a hunger for going somewhere new? Do you yearn for a new river to fall in, or something like that?

Curtis Jones: Definitely still very much. Yeah I – when we do some of like when we do these workshops, there’s always, usually, even if we’re going back to say Greenland, and it’s my fifth time going or sixth time going where usually the leaders, the guides, will try at the beginning or end to build in like an experience or a trip for us. And it’s normally something that we haven’t tried or done before. A different location, a different adventure. That kind of thing. So it’s useful because it, like, especially toward the end – after a workshop or a couple of back to back workshops – it gives you sort of that like downtime to just soak the place in on your own terms, and shoot some of your own stuff, and also just to find something new like you just said. I think that it’s more difficult. It’s funny because the more you do this sort of stuff for work and for money, the more you build up a portfolio of work and experience and expertise in different areas, and the more you can sell that, and the more people come to rely on you as like somewhat of a knowledgeable person in those areas, so you keep going back those areas which is fantastic, and it’s reliable and dependable – but it doesn’t allow a lot of free time to just say, you know what I’m gonna go to these 3 places this year. No idea what I’m getting into. It’s very much like – I think it’s hard to carve out that time for yourself the more it becomes a career. But it’s very important to still try to do it.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. And people do like to sort of pigeonhole you by sort of saying, “oh, you know, you’re the guy that does the the sort of polar expedition type things.” Or, “you’re the guy that does this.” Or you know you’re the windmills and tulips, guy, or whatever it might be.

Curtis Jones: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Lenton: And yeah, so for yourself, do you have any kind of like a bucket list of places you’d like to go to photograph for yourself at some point?

Curtis Jones: Yeah, I mean, like, so there’s definitely places in even just Newfoundland, that I’ve only ever like heard stories of or seen a handful of like old archival images and things of. There are locations that I don’t think a lot of people have been to that I’d love to go see and document or experience. There’s definitely a lot of – there’s still a fair amount. I’ve barely scratched the surface of South America. I’ve not done a lot of Asia. I’d love, love, love to get and to be able to do Eastern Russia.

Joe Lenton: Oh, nice!

Curtis Jones: There’s parts of – I’ve never been to Alaska like I mean, I’ve done a ton of the Arctic, and I’ve never seen that. So yeah, there’s definitely a lot of spots still. There’s even like, the more I look into like even just the UK. And the islands north. There’s – looks like some incredible spaces to just get dumped for a week with a tent, and just like explore a lot of those islands.

Joe Lenton: Oh, Scotland and the Highlands and then, further up to the yeah, the islands out there. Yeah, just very, very remote communities, small communities and some stunning landscapes. Yeah, really lovely.

Curtis Jones: Yeah.

Joe Lenton: Yeah. So where can people go to see more of your work? Partly your portfolio, but also if they want to keep up with what’s going on, and considering going on a trip somewhere and want to research what you offer? Where would you send them to have a look?

Curtis Jones: So pretty much is probably the best place to go and look. So everything should be there – the workshop information, galleries of my work, different things like that. A budding blog for anyone interested in some writing that I’m putting in there. And then there’s – I’m not – I’m actually terrible at social media. I do try to like keep up Instagram to some extent. So cjonesphoto on Instagram is another spot where you can see a little bit more like what I’m up to. More day to day, or week to week, I guess. But apart from those 2, I have a very struggling Youtube channel, which I plan to invest a little more time in over the summer, hopefully, to get more video content out. And so there’s a – there are some videos there now, but I’m I’m hoping to, like, fill that up a little bit. But website, curtis jones will give you access to all that.

Joe Lenton: Thank you very much for taking the time to be on the podcast today, Curtis. It’s been fun talking to you and getting to know a little bit about your story. Really appreciated having you on. Thank you.

Curtis Jones: Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on, and I really enjoyed this conversation.

Joe Lenton: That’s great. Thank you. And thank you all for listening to the Focused Professional podcast.

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